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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic zone episode number

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137 wow how time flies episode 137 for

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the third of jun 2011 Richardson is here

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with you still in Sydney Australia which

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still exists like the rest of the world

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and people weren't floating in the air

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because of the rapture that didn't

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happen get your tickets now for the next

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end of the world event coming your way

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going to her tour what is it coming to a

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theater near you in October and then

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it'll be coming to a theater near you in

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December 2012 oh let's just wait until

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we get into that end of the world

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goings-on ongoings off what do we have

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for you on this week's show Maynard is

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back and he'd of Use Somebody which I

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somebody I find very interesting adam

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curry from the no agenda podcast a

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favorite podcast of maynard what makes

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this man take what's his podcast all

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about coming up very soon and following

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that we have a segment I did Oh last

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year for our very good friends at choice

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magazine choice magazine the consumer

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watchdog here in Australia and

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Australians if you're not a subscriber

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to choice magazine or you don't get it

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regularly from your news agent do so

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they're on our side these are the people

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that helped us bring down the scam of

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power balance in this country so that's

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an interview i did a choice magazine for

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their podcast following that it's dr.

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Reggie reports now we are so proud of

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dr. HC she had a piece published in the

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current

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issue of cosmos magazine again if you're

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not a subscriber or you don't get it at

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your news agency that would be your next

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step cosmos magazine Australia's premier

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science magazine and we're so pleased

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that dr. 'he has been published then we

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slip back or maybe twenty years where

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I've dug up an old interview done by our

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current chief executive officer at the

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Australian skeptics Tim mendham all

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about astrology yes a blast from the

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past now does his advice about astrology

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still ring true you might find this a

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very interesting interview and a good

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refresher I think about astrology and to

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wind up the show we bring back Maynard

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from the beginning of the show where he

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tells us a little bit about a scam which

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is going around at the moment where

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people ring you up and say your

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computers infected and they can fix it

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for you and horrible things happen in

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fact somebody rang me a couple of weeks

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ago with this very scam fortunately

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thanks to people like Maynard I knew

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about the scam so I little bit of fun

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kept them on the line for a while and

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then and then told them politely what to

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do with their with their phone up scam

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find out more very good advice from

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Maynard and that will wrap up the show

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and Maynard is actually asked me to give

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a mention in a couple of weeks here in

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Sydney coming up supernova science

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fiction convention or just google

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supernova Sydney and you should find out

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more and may not says that he'll be

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there and I said they may not well if

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you're there I'll be there so we'll both

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go along to get some interviews and

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maybe film one of maynards video reports

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which is great fun also good friend of

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our Simon Taylor from Melbourne wants me

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to just mention to you that he started

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up flim-flam comics so if you google

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flim hyphen flam comics you can find out

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more from

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and Taylor now in the newsletter which a

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company is the skeptic zone every week

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I'll be putting in some details about

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how you if you're living in Sydney can

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be in the audience the studio audience

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for the taping of the TV show the one

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you might want to come along and a cheer

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my appearance or throw rotten tomatoes

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at me or slap me on the back or kick me

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in the pants whatever you want to do

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it's going to be a lot of fun i hope and

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that show starts taping ah Oh next week

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and the for the following seven weeks

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after that anyway details on the

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newsletter but for now I'm going to nip

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downstairs open up the fridge get out a

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bottle of vanilla vodka pour it over

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some ice sit down sip it slowly and race

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back upstairs to listen to the skeptic

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years may not spooky action at a

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ladies and gentlemen I have on the line

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a man who was known as the lone wolf a

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former Soviet spy mr. adam curry who is

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the co-host of the No Agenda Show with

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Jon C Dvorak in the morning one of the

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greatest podcasts you could ever listen

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to and their mission is none other than

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to change reality itself hello Adam hey

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in the morning to you mean it always

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nice to hear you explain everything

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about me was that kind of ride without

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what i was saying there was that your

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life in one saddle intro I'll take it

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you know I've done a lot I I consider

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myself a media assassin more than

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anything these days though to be quite

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honest now people hear the word assassin

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and I think Oh violence now not

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necessarily so I've been in media all my

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life I started in radio when I was 15

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and and and I grew up in Amsterdam

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actually and worked on pirate radio

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there for a while and a hospital closed

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circuit station which is great because

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the audience isn't going anywhere and

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when I was 19 I got my first gig on

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television doing a music show in the

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Netherlands called countdown which is

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actually interesting because of course

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some of your listeners will remember

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Molly from countdown in Australia huge

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legendary show here too yeah and then

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MTV in the u.s. I am American by birth

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MTV in the u.s. saw me and they asked me

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to come and work for them and I moved to

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New York in 87 and spent about almost

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eight years on air at MTV in in the

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United States and then left and then

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went into business I've always had a

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parallel life of a geek kind of a hybrid

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between a media person and an

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engineering technical person I'm not a

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great program or anything or developer

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but I understand the concepts and I'm

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pretty good at communicating back and

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forth between the two worlds past year

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well actually the past in 2007 it is now

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I started having skype conversations

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with the gentleman I'd met in San

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Francisco where I just started a company

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his name is john c Dvorak he's a little

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bit older than I am no one knows exactly

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how old he is he's a very well-known

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tech journalist but he's a very

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interesting guy he's had a held a number

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of crazy positions throughout life has a

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lot of knowledge also just life

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experience same Jimi Hendrix more than

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once live yeah exactly this is the

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and a guy he is so he has tons of

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interesting stories and one day I said

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you know we chatting you know at once a

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week on skype said you know why don't we

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record that and make it a podcast and

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people can listen in because I think

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there's some interesting stuff it's

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about politics it's about food he's a

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judge in wine contest and that is

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fascinating and we didn't always agree

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on stuff and it's nice when you're

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arrogant like me and when you're getting

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like him and there's someone who's

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saying you know you're full of crap not

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a lot of people like him Sarah Palin's

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never been anywhere she's pretty much of

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a local girl that just has never seen

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anything so you get no you no you get no

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confluence of ideas you're just kind of

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basically your local yokel and they want

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that to be the president you don't want

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that to be the president you want

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somebody that's smarter than you to be

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the president not somebody dumber than

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you to be the president because he's

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kind of misunderstood and I think we

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both kind of we were drawn to each other

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in that regard we like chatting and Adam

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is their profile of the average no

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agenda listener hmm I don't know if

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there's I mean we know the age ranges

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everywhere from 15 year old kids too we

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have 87 year old listening hundreds of

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thousands of worldwide but it is

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typically people who have a nagging

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feeling that they're being lied to and

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this nagging feeling comes from the fact

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that they're being lied to and mainly by

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mainstream news organizations who have

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multiple agendas any type of commercial

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media the actual programming is not the

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product but the audience is the product

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and let me just explain that if you're

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watching a commercial television station

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yeah you may think that that station is

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serving you with great programming what

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they're really doing and will do

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anything to make it happen witness the

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birth of reality television is they are

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selling you as an audience as an

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aggregate as a demographic to

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advertisers that in today's world of the

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internet and complete interconnectivity

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between human beings it's kind of

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annoying and people can't really put

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their finger on it they don't always

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feel what it is but they know there's a

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lot of bull crap being passed around and

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when you tune into no agenda invariably

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and we do it twice a week you're going

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to hear us discussing a topic and from

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our media backgrounds our experiential

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backgrounds are John's background as a

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journalist my background as a

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entertainment person we're going to lift

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the veil and say well here's really how

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it works the biggest barrier to people

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absorbing shows like no agenda is that

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they've got 0 instead of switching on

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the dial getting the show straight away

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they've actually got to make a bit of an

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effort to find it and do a bit of work

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and downloading a podcast or getting

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onto the stream and I think that's your

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biggest barrier how do you hope to

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overcome that I don't know if that's our

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biggest barrier what's so great about

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our audiences and again they are

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producers they are very current with how

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people are consuming media I have a 20

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year old daughter she doesn't have a

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television she doesn't listen to radio

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oh she watches and listens to everything

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on her computer thank God she also reads

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regular books which it gives me hope

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what's nice is people have created apps

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very simple for the masses you know you

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go get a nap and you just click on it

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and it just kind of works so all of that

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is is getting quite easy to consume I

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would say the hardest part for people to

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become a part of the community and

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listening is when you first hear the

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show it's like someone saying you see

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that color there that you think is black

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I'm sorry that's white that's very hard

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for people and it takes it takes some

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effort and it takes a while to get over

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it but once you wake up to the reality

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of the matrix like world that we

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actually live in the world of you know

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each of sg's go to school do your

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homework go to the University get a

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degree get a job pay your taxes go home

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watch television make sure you shop you

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are free once you see that that's not

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true that you're actually a slave of the

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system then you really get into the show

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because we don't sit there and [\h__\h] and

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00:12:14,740 --> 00:12:13,010
moan about it we turn it into humor

275
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because I think we've always been

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screwed throughout hundreds of years is

277
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just now we actually have the

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information at our fingertips to say

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well here you go this is the truth and

280
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this is what you're being told and once

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that veil

282
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if it's kind of like the guy behind the

283
00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:29,870
curtain in The Wizard of Oz it's like

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wow really that's pretty amazing and you

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00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:35,629
feel better about yourself because you

286
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can then watch news or television or

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whatever messages are being propagated

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around you and you can kind of laugh and

289
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say I know what the truth is as long as

290
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you know it you may not be able to

291
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change it and I don't think we're

292
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changing the world necessarily or we are

293
00:12:55,929 --> 00:12:54,019
changing people's reality and your

294
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reality is yours and it's your truth

295
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you're listening to adam carry co-host

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of the no agenda show at no agenda show

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calm Adam with that heavy weight on your

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shoulders you say you deal with the

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humor how do you feel on daily basis

300
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when you know most people are accepting

301
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what they call consensus reality and

302
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you're seeing another way that people

303
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just never see I feel very happy that

304
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for every person who we turn on to react

305
00:13:22,989 --> 00:13:20,749
to our reality let me put it that way it

306
00:13:27,939 --> 00:13:22,999
delights me that that is happening I

307
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:27,949
feel bad for people who don't see it or

308
00:13:31,780 --> 00:13:29,600
don't see ya does he also see it as a

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challenge and your listeners might be

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00:13:34,809 --> 00:13:33,379
interested to know that of course we

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don't have any commercials on our

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00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:37,160
program we do it twice a week it's two

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two and a half hours kind of when we run

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out then we're done it's Thursday

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morning in the United States and sunday

316
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morning in order to do this work we

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can't my co-host John and I can't really

318
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do anything else so we started a while

319
00:13:54,249 --> 00:13:53,029
back and we said well this is value for

320
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value if you like what we're doing

321
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you're gonna have to support us and just

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00:14:01,480 --> 00:13:58,129
like Hollywood will give you a credit if

323
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:01,490
you fund our program so if you watch any

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00:14:05,769 --> 00:14:03,290
television program you'll see credits

325
00:14:07,869 --> 00:14:05,779
you'll see executive producer and

326
00:14:10,299 --> 00:14:07,879
producer and co-executive producer and

327
00:14:12,489 --> 00:14:10,309
created by and co-creators and all that

328
00:14:14,199 --> 00:14:12,499
sometimes it's the first five minutes is

329
00:14:16,210 --> 00:14:14,209
just titles these are the people who

330
00:14:18,999 --> 00:14:16,220
have either done something for that

331
00:14:20,829 --> 00:14:19,009
program but typically have financed it

332
00:14:23,499 --> 00:14:20,839
credit is an important thing to people

333
00:14:25,269 --> 00:14:23,509
they it means a lot to them and it means

334
00:14:28,389 --> 00:14:25,279
a lot to us we've taken it a step

335
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:28,399
further since the United States we can

336
00:14:33,699 --> 00:14:31,370
do this we also offer knighthoods so if

337
00:14:35,230 --> 00:14:33,709
you've supported the show because it's

338
00:14:37,119 --> 00:14:35,240
almost impossible to become a knight

339
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:37,129
assertive anything in the u.s. because

340
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:38,880
you're not in the subject so why

341
00:14:43,550 --> 00:14:41,490
create your own yes and who says we

342
00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:43,560
can't right I mean you can you can start

343
00:14:46,730 --> 00:14:45,270
a church you can start you can become a

344
00:14:49,100 --> 00:14:46,740
minister of your own church that's

345
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:49,110
perfectly legal so we have knighthoods

346
00:14:54,170 --> 00:14:52,110
and we measure that by support of the

347
00:14:58,300 --> 00:14:54,180
show in excess of one thousand dollars

348
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:58,310
and you join the the No Agenda

349
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:00,180
roundtable of the nights we also have

350
00:15:04,310 --> 00:15:02,610
Dame's in a way it's a status symbol but

351
00:15:07,010 --> 00:15:04,320
there are certain responsibilities and

352
00:15:09,380 --> 00:15:07,020
the Knights do look out for each other

353
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:09,390
and they do have and they're all around

354
00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:12,650
the world we hereby Knight thee sir

355
00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:16,920
Michael Knight of the knowledge and

356
00:15:21,950 --> 00:15:19,500
around tables please join us here with

357
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:21,960
other knights and dames protect your

358
00:15:34,290 --> 00:15:32,910
is that music different yeah if someone

359
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:34,300
sent today like electromatic kind of

360
00:15:38,070 --> 00:15:35,530
like it I kind of like it was kind of

361
00:15:40,830 --> 00:15:38,080
nice so every morning when I wake up I

362
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:40,840
am thankful and I think my rent was paid

363
00:15:44,910 --> 00:15:42,850
by the people who value the work that

364
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:44,920
I'm doing it's a very old-fashioned

365
00:15:50,190 --> 00:15:48,010
medium hot hole yet very futuristic and

366
00:15:52,710 --> 00:15:50,200
it's working and that can only be

367
00:15:55,290 --> 00:15:52,720
because the audience is not the product

368
00:15:57,420 --> 00:15:55,300
the actual product we are bringing them

369
00:16:00,840 --> 00:15:57,430
is the product and they like it why do

370
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:00,850
you think people are so suspicious of

371
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:02,950
the official Osama bin Laden

372
00:16:07,530 --> 00:16:06,160
assassination story well almost

373
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:07,540
immediately people are going now that's

374
00:16:10,770 --> 00:16:08,800
not right but they don't believe it's

375
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:10,780
straight up well they really fumbled a

376
00:16:16,110 --> 00:16:13,120
lot on this one already this is not

377
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,120
being discussed first it was though we

378
00:16:21,330 --> 00:16:18,880
went in and he used a woman as a human

379
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:21,340
shield and then all of a sudden now well

380
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:23,440
actually someone jumped in front and he

381
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:25,510
was unarmed so they had to retract all

382
00:16:29,910 --> 00:16:27,730
of that so when you come out with your

383
00:16:32,250 --> 00:16:29,920
with your initial statement and you have

384
00:16:36,690 --> 00:16:32,260
to retract it that's not necessarily a

385
00:16:39,330 --> 00:16:36,700
very good thing also you know we we

386
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:39,340
threw the body in the sea the part of a

387
00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:44,050
the Muslim burial ceremony yeah yeah I

388
00:16:50,190 --> 00:16:47,740
know a lot of people who practice Islam

389
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:50,200
who live in the sea usually they're

390
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:52,060
buried in the desert where their head

391
00:16:57,060 --> 00:16:55,510
towards Mecca so we don't have a body we

392
00:16:59,130 --> 00:16:57,070
don't have the evidence we're not going

393
00:17:01,140 --> 00:16:59,140
to release the pictures although I think

394
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:01,150
in general though in the United States I

395
00:17:07,380 --> 00:17:03,250
think people do believe that he was

396
00:17:09,900 --> 00:17:07,390
killed the way how and why is that's

397
00:17:11,910 --> 00:17:09,910
questionable you know what what's more

398
00:17:14,910 --> 00:17:11,920
important is you know there's a new

399
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:14,920
episode of the Kardashians coming up you

400
00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:17,290
know people are just so anesthetized

401
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:19,990
that they don't even care I think

402
00:17:24,030 --> 00:17:21,730
anymore it's like okay ding dong the

403
00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:24,040
witch is dead whatever move on next oh

404
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:25,270
they're probably going to start

405
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:27,280
attacking us here in the homeland as we

406
00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:29,650
call it so yeah now I guess we should

407
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:33,040
yeah we need naked body scanners when we

408
00:17:37,610 --> 00:17:35,200
go shopping or go to a sporting event or

409
00:17:40,530 --> 00:17:37,620
get on the train now being proposed

410
00:17:42,580 --> 00:17:40,540
they've been beaten into submission now

411
00:17:46,330 --> 00:17:42,590
there's a lot of people who are skeptic

412
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:46,340
in general about Osama bin Laden and

413
00:17:50,140 --> 00:17:47,990
that's been going on for years and years

414
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:50,150
and years the timing of this was very

415
00:17:56,350 --> 00:17:52,730
interesting unfortunately most people

416
00:17:58,539 --> 00:17:56,360
shrug and go whatever okay maybe maybe

417
00:18:02,529 --> 00:17:58,549
not don't care i have to say by the way

418
00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:02,539
I love Australia I was there for two

419
00:18:09,370 --> 00:18:05,510
weeks doing a documentary in the early

420
00:18:12,850 --> 00:18:09,380
90s to me it was the perfect mix of kind

421
00:18:15,389 --> 00:18:12,860
of old-world British tradition which is

422
00:18:18,399 --> 00:18:15,399
logical why some of us that's in there

423
00:18:22,029 --> 00:18:18,409
American commercialism I love your malls

424
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:22,039
but also a Dutch something very Dutch

425
00:18:25,899 --> 00:18:24,049
there as well having grown up in the

426
00:18:27,639 --> 00:18:25,909
Netherlands something we call hose Ella

427
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,649
height which is kind of that doesn't

428
00:18:32,019 --> 00:18:28,880
really translate but it's kind of

429
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:32,029
coziness and my fiance and i discussed

430
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:35,210
many times not only paying another visit

431
00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:37,490
but we actually would consider a move

432
00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:39,230
look I've got a sense of humor about

433
00:18:44,590 --> 00:18:42,320
even the most serious things this is so

434
00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:44,600
incredibly important the sense of humor

435
00:18:49,330 --> 00:18:47,390
is really what it is we're losing that

436
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,340
in America I think that we're trying to

437
00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:51,200
bring some of that back it's not

438
00:18:55,779 --> 00:18:53,270
cynicism though in the United Kingdom

439
00:18:58,240 --> 00:18:55,789
it's cynicism and it's just like

440
00:19:00,399 --> 00:18:58,250
whatever you know bohica as they say

441
00:19:02,289 --> 00:19:00,409
bend over here it comes again they can't

442
00:19:05,860 --> 00:19:02,299
they can't get there just they've given

443
00:19:08,740 --> 00:19:05,870
up you need to have a fair or a healthy

444
00:19:10,779 --> 00:19:08,750
dose of humor but also the willingness

445
00:19:12,669 --> 00:19:10,789
to stand up and say I don't think so

446
00:19:14,740 --> 00:19:12,679
adam curry thank you for propagating

447
00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:14,750
your formula coming here and hitting me

448
00:19:32,149 --> 00:19:18,020
in the mouth it's quite a pleasure to do

449
00:19:37,049 --> 00:19:34,620
now on Belfast FM we turn to the

450
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:37,059
personal ads easygoing and confident

451
00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:39,130
skeptic seeks other critical thinkers

452
00:19:43,799 --> 00:19:41,799
for fun laughter and good times must be

453
00:19:45,899 --> 00:19:43,809
willing to apply logic liberally and a

454
00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:45,909
good listener expect something new and

455
00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:47,980
interesting every month come and meet me

456
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:49,960
in Belfast in Northern Ireland if this

457
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:51,850
sounds like you check out my profile on

458
00:20:01,799 --> 00:19:55,450
Belfast skeptics calm music by Kevin

459
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:01,809
MacLeod you're listening to choice radio

460
00:20:08,730 --> 00:20:04,450
a regular audio podcast from the team

461
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:11,160
hello and welcome to choice radio I'm

462
00:20:15,330 --> 00:20:12,850
Elise Davidson and today I'll be having

463
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:15,340
a chat with Richard Saunders from the

464
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:17,410
Australian skeptics the Australian

465
00:20:21,630 --> 00:20:19,450
skeptics is a nonprofit organization

466
00:20:24,060 --> 00:20:21,640
based in Australia which investigates

467
00:20:26,910 --> 00:20:24,070
paranormal and pseudo scientific claims

468
00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:26,920
using scientific methodologies welcome

469
00:20:30,570 --> 00:20:28,270
to the program Richard thank you very

470
00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:30,580
much first of all can you tell our

471
00:20:34,290 --> 00:20:32,110
listeners a little bit about the history

472
00:20:37,650 --> 00:20:34,300
of Australian skeptics yeah Australian

473
00:20:39,630 --> 00:20:37,660
skeptics kicked off in the and about

474
00:20:41,490 --> 00:20:39,640
nineteen eighty and the original

475
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,500
inspiration was all the funny stuff

476
00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:43,600
going on in the 70s with spoon bending

477
00:20:48,450 --> 00:20:45,940
in UFOs and ghosts and Bigfoot it was

478
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:48,460
all really popular back then and a man

479
00:20:52,350 --> 00:20:50,320
by the name of James Randi came out at

480
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:52,360
the invitation of Dick Smith the famous

481
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:54,400
dick smith and conducted a very

482
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:56,650
comprehensive set of water divining

483
00:21:00,690 --> 00:20:59,200
tests because one of the claims that has

484
00:21:03,870 --> 00:21:00,700
never gone away as those of water

485
00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:03,880
diviners water douses and much to the

486
00:21:07,950 --> 00:21:05,590
surprise of the water diviners they all

487
00:21:10,380 --> 00:21:07,960
failed the test miserably but anyway

488
00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:10,390
after that the organization was sort of

489
00:21:15,630 --> 00:21:13,000
kicked off with Philip Adams Dick Smith

490
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:15,640
Richard Carlton was involved way back

491
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:18,250
then originally and the founders yeah so

492
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:20,860
you recently went to the mind body and

493
00:21:25,169 --> 00:21:22,809
spirit festival in Sydney I believe now

494
00:21:26,970 --> 00:21:25,179
these that's a festival that towards the

495
00:21:28,650 --> 00:21:26,980
country pretty regularly yeah can you

496
00:21:30,900 --> 00:21:28,660
tell me a bit about that yeah we've been

497
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:30,910
going to that for well I've been going

498
00:21:35,010 --> 00:21:32,650
personally for over ten years every six

499
00:21:36,570 --> 00:21:35,020
months it's like a continuing torture

500
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:36,580
pin last week I enjoy it I want to do I

501
00:21:40,590 --> 00:21:38,650
love it I love it now this is all under

502
00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:40,600
the banner of new age and what we've

503
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:42,940
discovered in the skeptics is under the

504
00:21:46,620 --> 00:21:44,650
banner of new age you can just about say

505
00:21:49,250 --> 00:21:46,630
anything make any outrageous claim and

506
00:21:51,660 --> 00:21:49,260
most of the people who go along are

507
00:21:53,580 --> 00:21:51,670
believers and they'll often believe

508
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:53,590
everything they've been taught or shown

509
00:21:59,790 --> 00:21:56,020
at these these things and not only that

510
00:22:01,680 --> 00:21:59,800
is that they will instantly defend these

511
00:22:03,150 --> 00:22:01,690
claims even if they're completely

512
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:03,160
outrageous and flying the laws of

513
00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:05,290
physics it almost reminds me of a

514
00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:07,360
religious outlook that's fascinating so

515
00:22:12,140 --> 00:22:09,790
what sort of items or stalls would you

516
00:22:15,570 --> 00:22:12,150
find at a mind body and spirit festival

517
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:15,580
largely things dealing with health which

518
00:22:21,930 --> 00:22:19,360
is probably why we're so interested now

519
00:22:22,390 --> 00:22:21,940
I have in front of me something called a

520
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:22,400
code

521
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,170
conduct this is by the New South Wales

522
00:22:28,030 --> 00:22:26,240
health and the Australian cares

523
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:28,040
Complaints Commission which was put out

524
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:31,010
for unregistered health care providers

525
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:33,110
now this is largely the people who go

526
00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:34,370
along and set up their stalls at mind

527
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:36,230
body spirit or mind-body wallet as we

528
00:22:40,540 --> 00:22:38,210
call it and we're talking from

529
00:22:42,670 --> 00:22:40,550
everything of everyone from iridology to

530
00:22:44,670 --> 00:22:42,680
naturopaths to people with bizarre

531
00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:44,680
machines that can test your allergies

532
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:47,900
using magic basically and what they say

533
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,490
is quantum physics this is just

534
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:51,200
gobbledygook of course but it's

535
00:22:56,890 --> 00:22:54,260
interesting this code of conduct one of

536
00:22:59,890 --> 00:22:56,900
the stipulations here is number 17 is

537
00:23:02,470 --> 00:22:59,900
that this code itself must be displayed

538
00:23:04,810 --> 00:23:02,480
wherever these people are practicing so

539
00:23:06,970 --> 00:23:04,820
we play code of conduct bingo when we go

540
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:06,980
to the mind-body wallet and we always

541
00:23:13,690 --> 00:23:10,490
score a big fat zero ah and also went

542
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:13,700
number 5 says they cannot make claims to

543
00:23:19,450 --> 00:23:16,460
cure serious illness right cancer for

544
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:19,460
example or AIDS but everywhere you go if

545
00:23:22,510 --> 00:23:20,810
you have a word to these people they

546
00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:22,520
will tell you that their herb they grew

547
00:23:25,870 --> 00:23:24,200
in their backyard or this berry from the

548
00:23:29,230 --> 00:23:25,880
Amazon which science doesn't know about

549
00:23:33,070 --> 00:23:29,240
yet we'll cure cancer we'll cure AIDS

550
00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:33,080
it's outrageous and it really is time

551
00:23:38,110 --> 00:23:35,020
that the government raided this

552
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,120
mind-body-spirit sham because people

553
00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:40,880
have been told very very dangerous and

554
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,270
bad advice another instance was some

555
00:23:48,790 --> 00:23:46,640
people we came across selling a little

556
00:23:51,580 --> 00:23:48,800
amulet you wear around your neck which

557
00:23:54,250 --> 00:23:51,590
despite all the other magical powers can

558
00:23:56,110 --> 00:23:54,260
turn drinking water into sunblock this

559
00:23:59,050 --> 00:23:56,120
is outrageous this is bordering on

560
00:24:02,380 --> 00:23:59,060
criminal surely how is it supposed to it

561
00:24:04,630 --> 00:24:02,390
it energizes the water with magic scalar

562
00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:04,640
energy which tyler yeah it looks it

563
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:06,740
doesn't is that someone's just made this

564
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:09,290
up it's just to sell the product did the

565
00:24:12,580 --> 00:24:10,610
people selling the products believe in

566
00:24:13,870 --> 00:24:12,590
them then largely yes he's very

567
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:13,880
concerning when you're talking about

568
00:24:17,620 --> 00:24:15,650
things like cancer and and sunblock

569
00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:17,630
giving is your skin health it's now

570
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:18,860
there's a lot of things at the mind body

571
00:24:22,180 --> 00:24:20,570
spirit which are good fun you can buy

572
00:24:24,790 --> 00:24:22,190
lots a nice food there you can meditate

573
00:24:27,790 --> 00:24:24,800
and that's fine great feel happy and

574
00:24:29,620 --> 00:24:27,800
enjoy that side of life but when there

575
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:29,630
are people there endangering your health

576
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:32,090
directly endangering your health that's

577
00:24:35,010 --> 00:24:34,130
very serious and year after year we

578
00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:35,020
wonder

579
00:24:37,950 --> 00:24:36,550
the government this code of conduct that

580
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:37,960
you were talking about before is that a

581
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:40,480
voluntary code that people can sign up

582
00:24:45,810 --> 00:24:42,730
to these sort of none health position as

583
00:24:48,060 --> 00:24:45,820
as far as i know this code is you don't

584
00:24:49,530 --> 00:24:48,070
sign up to it this is law if you're not

585
00:24:51,630 --> 00:24:49,540
involved in the body which has

586
00:24:53,550 --> 00:24:51,640
regulations like doctors for example

587
00:24:55,860 --> 00:24:53,560
have our body there to take care of that

588
00:24:57,420 --> 00:24:55,870
well this this is for all the people

589
00:25:00,120 --> 00:24:57,430
that fall through the gap that aren't

590
00:25:01,950 --> 00:25:00,130
registered in a body which has the codes

591
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:01,960
of conduct this covers those people I

592
00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:03,760
say so what other protections are in

593
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:06,700
place Richard for consumers against you

594
00:25:10,860 --> 00:25:08,080
know not only wasting their money but

595
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:10,870
endangering their health I wish there

596
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:12,610
were more i just don't think there are

597
00:25:16,950 --> 00:25:14,410
enough in fact what can you do you can

598
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:16,960
sue the people talk to a lawyer ring up

599
00:25:20,010 --> 00:25:18,610
your local member and say why aren't

600
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:20,020
these people being stopped when they're

601
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:21,610
making outrageous health claims come to

602
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:23,050
the australian skeptics and we'll try to

603
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,210
make a fuss for you there's not enough

604
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:27,520
protection and what about the trade

605
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:30,130
practices act in terms of section 74

606
00:25:34,590 --> 00:25:32,410
false and misleading advertising is it

607
00:25:36,180 --> 00:25:34,600
is the a triple c this trailing

608
00:25:38,490 --> 00:25:36,190
Competition and Consumer Commission not

609
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,500
going after these people because it's

610
00:25:43,020 --> 00:25:40,720
sort of small small fish I would expect

611
00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:43,030
that's right and probably because not

612
00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:44,950
many direct complaints are made about

613
00:25:49,860 --> 00:25:47,500
them because as a great expression by

614
00:25:51,660 --> 00:25:49,870
saying from Benjamin Franklin there are

615
00:25:53,670 --> 00:25:51,670
no greater lies in the world than quacks

616
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:53,680
apart from their patients in other words

617
00:25:56,700 --> 00:25:55,210
people won't go to complain because

618
00:25:59,070 --> 00:25:56,710
they'll probably think it's their fault

619
00:26:00,570 --> 00:25:59,080
the cure failed right it can't be the

620
00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:00,580
magic amulet because they have a

621
00:26:04,020 --> 00:26:02,350
complete trust and belief in it it's

622
00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:04,030
these sort of people that are leaving

623
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:06,100
themselves wide open to being ripped off

624
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:07,990
financially and having their health

625
00:26:11,730 --> 00:26:09,730
endangered have you got any idea how big

626
00:26:13,170 --> 00:26:11,740
this industries and how many millions of

627
00:26:15,990 --> 00:26:13,180
dollars a year is spent on these kind of

628
00:26:17,670 --> 00:26:16,000
products let's try for billions the

629
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:17,680
alternative health industry the wellness

630
00:26:21,810 --> 00:26:20,290
industry the new age and everything that

631
00:26:24,300 --> 00:26:21,820
falls under that umbrella is a

632
00:26:27,210 --> 00:26:24,310
multinational multi-billion dollar

633
00:26:29,190 --> 00:26:27,220
juggernaut and as I said before it's got

634
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:29,200
this wonderful protection mechanism of

635
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:32,110
believers it's quite incredible sure is

636
00:26:35,919 --> 00:26:34,490
this has been a fascinating discussion

637
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:35,929
thanks so much for coming in to talk to

638
00:26:43,540 --> 00:26:41,450
us today Richard my pleasure this has

639
00:26:45,580 --> 00:26:43,550
been the choice radio podcast for more

640
00:26:48,490 --> 00:26:45,590
information on today's topic and others

641
00:26:58,060 --> 00:26:48,500
visit our website at choice combo vu

642
00:26:59,200 --> 00:26:58,070
thanks for listening hi this is michael

643
00:27:01,030 --> 00:26:59,210
cruz from the committee for the

644
00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:01,040
advancement of scientific skepticism at

645
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:03,710
the center for inquiry canada Cass is

646
00:27:06,940 --> 00:27:04,880
committed to critically examining

647
00:27:08,830 --> 00:27:06,950
scientific technological and medical

648
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:08,840
claims in the public forum across Canada

649
00:27:13,450 --> 00:27:11,480
working with our expert advisors local

650
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:13,460
cfi branches and other skeptical groups

651
00:27:16,510 --> 00:27:15,050
Cass confronts the peddlers of

652
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:16,520
pseudoscience with evidence-based

653
00:27:20,890 --> 00:27:19,520
scientific inquiry 2010 has been a

654
00:27:23,230 --> 00:27:20,900
watershed here for the sceptical

655
00:27:24,970 --> 00:27:23,240
movement in Canada and in 2011 cast will

656
00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:24,980
continue fighting bad science in the

657
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:27,140
media and the government if you would

658
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:28,610
like to become involved in the fight to

659
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:30,170
promote critical thinking in canada or

660
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:31,730
if you have a concern about the spread

661
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:33,170
of pseudoscience in the Canadian media

662
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:35,840
please contact us at casts at see if I

663
00:27:41,169 --> 00:27:38,330
canada CA you can also follow us on

664
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,179
twitter at cfi casts and on facebook at

665
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:44,000
cass at center for inquiry canada casts

666
00:28:03,840 --> 00:27:58,590
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

667
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:03,850
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello listeners

668
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:07,210
and welcome to dr. Reggie reports well

669
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:08,710
this month I've written the opinion

670
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:11,050
piece for cosmos magazine which is the

671
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:12,730
most popular science magazine in

672
00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:15,970
Australia if you're in Australia go out

673
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:17,680
and buy a copy from your local newsagent

674
00:28:22,410 --> 00:28:19,750
but for the benefit of our overseas

675
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:22,420
listeners who can't get cosmos I'm going

676
00:28:26,310 --> 00:28:23,970
to read the article out for you today

677
00:28:31,050 --> 00:28:26,320
it's about one of my favourite

678
00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:31,060
pseudo-sciences homeopathy pseudoscience

679
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:33,370
makes me mad which is why I was so

680
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:35,560
pleased to read a recent draft statement

681
00:28:39,540 --> 00:28:37,630
from Australia's peak health advisory

682
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:39,550
body the National Health and Medical

683
00:28:45,090 --> 00:28:41,530
Research Council which said in part

684
00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:45,100
quote the NH and MRC's position is it is

685
00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:47,110
unethical for health practitioners to

686
00:28:51,930 --> 00:28:49,750
treat patients using homeopathy for the

687
00:28:56,220 --> 00:28:51,940
reason that homeopathy has been shown

688
00:28:59,040 --> 00:28:56,230
not to be efficacious so unethical and

689
00:29:01,200 --> 00:28:59,050
not efficacious these are strong words

690
00:29:03,420 --> 00:29:01,210
indeed and this is actually the first

691
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:03,430
time the Australian Government has made

692
00:29:08,030 --> 00:29:05,830
such an unequivocal statement about the

693
00:29:10,380 --> 00:29:08,040
pseudoscience of homeopathy and

694
00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:10,390
according to this draft statement which

695
00:29:14,340 --> 00:29:12,460
curiously is stamped with not for

696
00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:14,350
distribution the government was

697
00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:16,600
motivated after a similar move in the

698
00:29:22,350 --> 00:29:19,270
United Kingdom now many listeners would

699
00:29:24,690 --> 00:29:22,360
remember that in 2010 the UK national

700
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:24,700
health service conducted a review of the

701
00:29:29,550 --> 00:29:26,650
evidence to support continued public

702
00:29:31,230 --> 00:29:29,560
funding of homeopathy in Britain this

703
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:31,240
was called an evidence check and was

704
00:29:37,890 --> 00:29:35,410
reported in a 273 page report now in

705
00:29:40,020 --> 00:29:37,900
Britain the NHS spends four million

706
00:29:42,570 --> 00:29:40,030
pounds of taxpayers money a year on

707
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:42,580
homeopathy so they wanted to check if

708
00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:44,350
there was still evidence to support this

709
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:47,190
spending and following an exhaustive

710
00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:49,930
investigation which included submissions

711
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,510
from scientists and homeopaths like the

712
00:29:58,710 --> 00:29:55,120
UK government concluded that the NHS

713
00:30:00,810 --> 00:29:58,720
should cease funding homeopathy that no

714
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:00,820
further trials should be conducted of

715
00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:03,370
homeopathy that explanations for why

716
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:03,910
homie

717
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:05,950
the works are scientifically implausible

718
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:08,290
and that all evidence pointed to the

719
00:30:14,310 --> 00:30:11,650
fact that homeopathy doesn't work they

720
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:14,320
weren't mincing their words so

721
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:16,930
homeopathy was invented 200 years ago by

722
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:18,910
German physician Samuel Hahnemann and

723
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:21,370
it's based on the concept of like treats

724
00:30:25,620 --> 00:30:23,890
like that is that the symptoms of an

725
00:30:27,870 --> 00:30:25,630
illness can be treated by minut

726
00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:27,880
quantities of a substance that caused it

727
00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:31,360
so for example a homeopathic preparation

728
00:30:37,170 --> 00:30:33,790
for insomnia might include miniscule

729
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:37,180
amounts of coffee or 14 hay fever might

730
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:39,910
contain tiny traces of pollens or animal

731
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:43,170
fur and to make it even more bizarre

732
00:30:48,150 --> 00:30:45,730
homeopathic preparations are extremely

733
00:30:50,370 --> 00:30:48,160
diluted often beyond the point where

734
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:50,380
science predicts even one molecule of

735
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:53,710
the original substance remains so for

736
00:30:59,010 --> 00:30:55,810
example if you go into a pharmacy here

737
00:31:00,570 --> 00:30:59,020
in Australia and pick up a 30 C dilution

738
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:00,580
which is a common delusion for

739
00:31:04,770 --> 00:31:02,530
homeopathic products in this country

740
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:04,780
this is the equivalent of diluting

741
00:31:10,980 --> 00:31:08,770
something 10 to the power of 60 times so

742
00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:10,990
something like and I think this is even

743
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:13,390
an underestimation putting a drop of

744
00:31:18,410 --> 00:31:15,610
vodka in a pool the size of the solar

745
00:31:21,180 --> 00:31:18,420
system and expecting to still get drunk

746
00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:21,190
yet this is precisely what homeopaths

747
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:23,440
believe they believe that the more

748
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:26,170
dilute a substance is the more potent it

749
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:29,110
is and to explain this they claim that

750
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:31,570
the water retains a memory of the

751
00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:34,210
original substance this is of course

752
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:36,880
complete gibberish and conveniently

753
00:31:42,150 --> 00:31:39,130
ignores the fact that the water also

754
00:31:43,980 --> 00:31:42,160
somehow forgets all the sewage mercury

755
00:31:46,140 --> 00:31:43,990
and other bad stuff it's been in contact

756
00:31:49,860 --> 00:31:46,150
with before it ended up in your little

757
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:49,870
homeopathic flask now unlike the UK the

758
00:31:54,060 --> 00:31:51,610
australian government does not directly

759
00:31:56,430 --> 00:31:54,070
fund homeopathy in this country but they

760
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:56,440
do put in 3 billion dollars a year of

761
00:32:02,730 --> 00:31:58,840
taxpayers money towards public health

762
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,740
fund rebates so if your health fund is

763
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:04,720
somehow covering homeopathy through its

764
00:32:09,570 --> 00:32:07,330
rebates then taxpayers in Australia are

765
00:32:12,450 --> 00:32:09,580
paying for it too now the draft

766
00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:12,460
statement from the NHMRC indicates that

767
00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:14,140
they will be consulting with several

768
00:32:17,710 --> 00:32:15,940
health bodies before they make a

769
00:32:20,530 --> 00:32:17,720
decision on whether to make this a

770
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:20,540
shull and this includes the NHS in the

771
00:32:26,170 --> 00:32:23,810
UK it also includes the TGA in Australia

772
00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:26,180
and consumers will be consulted and

773
00:32:31,180 --> 00:32:28,190
patients through the consumer health

774
00:32:33,340 --> 00:32:31,190
forum it's also important to remember

775
00:32:35,950 --> 00:32:33,350
that this does not mean homeopathy will

776
00:32:37,780 --> 00:32:35,960
be banned in australia but if it is

777
00:32:40,150 --> 00:32:37,790
officially declared unethical and

778
00:32:43,290 --> 00:32:40,160
useless there will be pressure on health

779
00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:43,300
funds to cease covering it and also

780
00:32:48,970 --> 00:32:46,340
potentially we could see a move to have

781
00:32:50,290 --> 00:32:48,980
it disappear from pharmacy shelves where

782
00:32:52,690 --> 00:32:50,300
it currently sits alongside

783
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:52,700
science-based rigorously tested

784
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:55,310
evidence-based medicines also

785
00:32:59,980 --> 00:32:57,530
importantly this statement sends a clear

786
00:33:02,590 --> 00:32:59,990
message to the public that homeopathy is

787
00:33:05,310 --> 00:33:02,600
not medicine and should not be used

788
00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:05,320
instead of conventional treatment

789
00:33:10,690 --> 00:33:08,630
perhaps the NHMRC also considered two

790
00:33:14,260 --> 00:33:10,700
recent tragic deaths in Australia where

791
00:33:16,210 --> 00:33:14,270
homeopathy was implicated one was 45

792
00:33:17,950 --> 00:33:16,220
year old penelope dingle who died from

793
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:17,960
bowel cancer treated with homeopathy

794
00:33:23,770 --> 00:33:20,530
instead of conventional medicine and

795
00:33:26,290 --> 00:33:23,780
also nine-month-old Gloria Sam who died

796
00:33:28,750 --> 00:33:26,300
from septicemia contracted from severe

797
00:33:30,430 --> 00:33:28,760
eczema since her parents treated her

798
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:30,440
with homeopathy instead of conventional

799
00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:33,710
medicine and as an aside her parents are

800
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:35,420
now spending time in jail for

801
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:38,000
manslaughter so homeopathy is a

802
00:33:43,030 --> 00:33:40,970
pseudoscience and that is a claim belief

803
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:43,040
or practice that is presented as

804
00:33:47,620 --> 00:33:45,050
scientific but actually doesn't adhere

805
00:33:49,660 --> 00:33:47,630
to any valid scientific method like

806
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:49,670
supporting evidence or plausibility and

807
00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:53,330
cannot be reliably tested it certainly

808
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:55,520
has no place in our pharmacies here in

809
00:34:01,540 --> 00:33:57,710
Australia and should not be funded by

810
00:34:04,290 --> 00:34:01,550
taxpayers so if the NHMRC draft position

811
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:04,300
becomes official it not only makes

812
00:34:09,730 --> 00:34:06,650
scientific sense but it will also

813
00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:09,740
protect consumers and this can only be a

814
00:34:14,050 --> 00:34:12,260
good thing if you're in Australia you

815
00:34:16,930 --> 00:34:14,060
can pick up a copy of the june july

816
00:34:19,540 --> 00:34:16,940
issue of cosmos magazine at your local

817
00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:19,550
newsagent on the cover it's got a story

818
00:34:23,980 --> 00:34:22,220
about Saturn's rings and if you're not

819
00:34:25,810 --> 00:34:23,990
in Australia the article won't be

820
00:34:28,930 --> 00:34:25,820
available online until the next issue

821
00:34:31,090 --> 00:34:28,940
comes out which will be August so until

822
00:34:34,930 --> 00:34:31,100
next time this has been dr. Richie

823
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:37,730
dr. Rachel Dunlop is one of Australia's

824
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:40,530
foremost media commentators in matters

825
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:41,930
concerning so-called alternative

826
00:34:48,260 --> 00:34:44,490
medicine she has appeared on national

827
00:34:50,570 --> 00:34:48,270
radio and national television dr. H E is

828
00:34:54,530 --> 00:34:50,580
available for interviews and you can

829
00:35:02,330 --> 00:34:54,540
contact her at Rachel at skeptic zone

830
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:02,340
dot TV yeah aight guys i was talking to

831
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:04,770
Richard Saleh see today alright he said

832
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:06,990
if we record a trailer for our podcast

833
00:35:10,730 --> 00:35:09,090
skeptics with a que he'd play it on

834
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:10,740
their on their show that's nice of him

835
00:35:13,310 --> 00:35:12,090
that's very generous it's pretty good

836
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:13,320
i'm not sure what we could do though I

837
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,450
mean well suppose you tell people shows

838
00:35:20,060 --> 00:35:17,760
about but it's basically this yeah like

839
00:35:21,710 --> 00:35:20,070
yeah but you know we talk about science

840
00:35:23,270 --> 00:35:21,720
and skepticism and things that's that's

841
00:35:25,550 --> 00:35:23,280
true as fuzzy you mention the website

842
00:35:27,380 --> 00:35:25,560
address what merseyside skeptics dodo UK

843
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:27,390
yeah yeah just like searches night UN's

844
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:29,010
oh and then we could end with like a big

845
00:35:40,820 --> 00:35:32,490
song like the skeptics with okay god no

846
00:35:42,850 --> 00:35:40,830
no no no don't don't do that this

847
00:35:45,170 --> 00:35:42,860
morning we're talking about astrology

848
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:45,180
essentially astrology is the belief that

849
00:35:49,220 --> 00:35:47,280
the Stars and the planets influence our

850
00:35:52,670 --> 00:35:49,230
daily lives and that a person

851
00:35:55,310 --> 00:35:52,680
knowledgeable enough inverted comma C

852
00:35:57,770 --> 00:35:55,320
knowledgeable enough can on the basis of

853
00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:57,780
the stars and planets positions tell us

854
00:36:03,290 --> 00:36:01,260
about our future now I wish to know what

855
00:36:06,140 --> 00:36:03,300
the future holds in store is as old as

856
00:36:08,270 --> 00:36:06,150
man himself and that wish to know the

857
00:36:10,430 --> 00:36:08,280
future becomes a hope and bag belief

858
00:36:12,830 --> 00:36:10,440
that the future can indeed be known if

859
00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:12,840
we only had the right formula the

860
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:15,060
astrologers product is hope and he sells

861
00:36:19,220 --> 00:36:17,250
it telling his clients that indeed

862
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:19,230
everything will be all right if they can

863
00:36:24,470 --> 00:36:21,510
avoid certain dangers at certain times

864
00:36:25,790 --> 00:36:24,480
and there's a catch or the comforting

865
00:36:27,980 --> 00:36:25,800
pat on the back depending on how you

866
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:27,990
regard astrology well one person who

867
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:29,670
doesn't regard it they're highly and

868
00:36:34,250 --> 00:36:32,040
claims he does have evidence to prove it

869
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:34,260
is Tim mendham from the Australian

870
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,330
skeptics Association good morning Tim on

871
00:36:42,110 --> 00:36:38,400
and really nice to have you in thank you

872
00:36:44,570 --> 00:36:42,120
very much Tim astrology today in terms

873
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:44,580
of popularity as that a new high the

874
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:47,010
question is why very difficult question

875
00:36:52,730 --> 00:36:51,090
to answer actually probably many surveys

876
00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:52,740
have been done to find out how popular

877
00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:54,420
astrology is and it's certainly maintain

878
00:36:58,430 --> 00:36:56,280
its popularity over the last three

879
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:58,440
thousand years yeah although it goes up

880
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:00,720
and down in various centuries but right

881
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,010
now we're going through a high for

882
00:37:05,750 --> 00:37:04,320
astrology will be because of what you

883
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:05,760
just said about the uncertainty about

884
00:37:09,019 --> 00:37:07,290
the future when people like to be

885
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:09,029
comforted that

886
00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:10,169
everything that happens to them he's got

887
00:37:13,999 --> 00:37:12,209
is unknown and not everything that

888
00:37:15,859 --> 00:37:14,009
happened to them is their own fault as

889
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:15,869
well that's a major criterion in

890
00:37:19,819 --> 00:37:18,209
astrology as well hmm well we're going

891
00:37:22,099 --> 00:37:19,829
to be looking at two aspects of the

892
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:22,109
astrological argument this morning one

893
00:37:26,989 --> 00:37:24,209
is there any physical mechanism by which

894
00:37:29,029 --> 00:37:26,999
astrology can be measured and number two

895
00:37:31,699 --> 00:37:29,039
can astrologers do what they say they

896
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:31,709
can do now let's talk about the first

897
00:37:35,809 --> 00:37:34,169
one astrologers regard the planets in

898
00:37:38,419 --> 00:37:35,819
our solar system as being the basic

899
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:38,429
force if you like that influence our

900
00:37:46,809 --> 00:37:42,209
character and they look on the stars or

901
00:37:49,909 --> 00:37:46,819
the signs rather as forces that are

902
00:37:51,859 --> 00:37:49,919
reflect the various changes within each

903
00:37:53,569 --> 00:37:51,869
planet the forces of each planet now Tim

904
00:37:55,279 --> 00:37:53,579
you say that just can't work we can't

905
00:37:56,689 --> 00:37:55,289
base astrology on the movements of

906
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:56,699
different planets not really because

907
00:38:01,549 --> 00:37:58,890
some the major problem is with the

908
00:38:05,089 --> 00:38:01,559
planets distance out of astrologers

909
00:38:07,219 --> 00:38:05,099
happy years tried to find out how what

910
00:38:09,949 --> 00:38:07,229
sort of mechanism is involved in the

911
00:38:11,899 --> 00:38:09,959
influence of planets on us and cause

912
00:38:14,179 --> 00:38:11,909
there's various things train forward the

913
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:14,189
most common one excuse me most common

914
00:38:19,489 --> 00:38:16,890
one that's put up is gravity yeah it's a

915
00:38:21,019 --> 00:38:19,499
nice simple force anyone says it anyone

916
00:38:22,339 --> 00:38:21,029
knows about gravity and you can't sort

917
00:38:23,539 --> 00:38:22,349
of leave the earth eagle as a gravity

918
00:38:25,489 --> 00:38:23,549
and things like that therefore it must

919
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:25,499
have some influence on us we all know

920
00:38:30,109 --> 00:38:27,569
about the tides being affected by the

921
00:38:31,849 --> 00:38:30,119
moon and the Sun and that's gravity what

922
00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:31,859
unfortunately the astrologers don't

923
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:33,359
point out is that the planets are a long

924
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:35,729
way away and the moon and the Sun are a

925
00:38:40,909 --> 00:38:37,529
lot closer a lot larger by comparison

926
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:40,919
yes gravity is I'm not assigned to say

927
00:38:44,179 --> 00:38:42,359
this scientist in the audience will have

928
00:38:47,870 --> 00:38:44,189
to excuse me if i abused their science

929
00:38:49,939 --> 00:38:47,880
but as I understand a gravity gets less

930
00:38:53,919 --> 00:38:49,949
the further away you go from the source

931
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:53,929
of gravity gets less moon is our closest

932
00:38:58,429 --> 00:38:56,130
body in space so that's got fairly

933
00:39:01,189 --> 00:38:58,439
strong influence the Sun has got less

934
00:39:02,479 --> 00:39:01,199
strength a planet is millions and

935
00:39:05,179 --> 00:39:02,489
millions of miles away and it's got

936
00:39:08,419 --> 00:39:05,189
infinity infinitely decimal less

937
00:39:12,349 --> 00:39:08,429
strength well is it this is it I was

938
00:39:13,969 --> 00:39:12,359
wondering about say for instance and may

939
00:39:16,489 --> 00:39:13,979
already know there's millions of stars

940
00:39:18,109 --> 00:39:16,499
in the universe but the fact that one

941
00:39:19,729 --> 00:39:18,119
this one is one thing that the

942
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:19,739
astrologers can't explain as the speed

943
00:39:24,170 --> 00:39:21,570
light effect

944
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:24,180
meaning that it takes a long time for

945
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:26,130
stars that's right how their life

946
00:39:29,180 --> 00:39:27,810
finally reflected on earth and of course

947
00:39:30,770 --> 00:39:29,190
that's millions of light-years away so

948
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:30,780
we're essentially looking at stars in

949
00:39:34,430 --> 00:39:32,910
the past but how can we possibly know

950
00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:34,440
what the constellations wear when we're

951
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:38,030
born because they weren't what we were

952
00:39:41,660 --> 00:39:40,350
populations are sort of fairly steady

953
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:41,670
what of course the whole problem with

954
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:43,290
astrology is that they look at the

955
00:39:47,900 --> 00:39:45,000
constellations as being shapes then

956
00:39:49,610 --> 00:39:47,910
Pisces or leo the lion or the scales or

957
00:39:51,530 --> 00:39:49,620
whatever unfortunately that's only true

958
00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:51,540
from Earth if you move a few light-years

959
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:53,520
to one side of Earth you suddenly find

960
00:39:57,170 --> 00:39:55,650
that those shapes aren't there at all as

961
00:39:59,570 --> 00:39:57,180
the stars they see in the constellations

962
00:40:01,310 --> 00:39:59,580
ones close up once a long way away you

963
00:40:03,830 --> 00:40:01,320
take a different angle to look at it

964
00:40:05,330 --> 00:40:03,840
completely different shape right now the

965
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:05,340
consolations aren't really there as

966
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:07,950
bodies at all all right well so then

967
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,050
what about that argument it was advanced

968
00:40:14,750 --> 00:40:12,720
in a couple of astrologers books about

969
00:40:16,220 --> 00:40:14,760
it well if the moon can affect the tides

970
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,230
and why not the rest of the planet

971
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:18,000
that's the age-old yes that that's

972
00:40:22,970 --> 00:40:21,270
called a red herring actually okay the

973
00:40:24,250 --> 00:40:22,980
moon's a lot closer as we see it well

974
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:24,260
that's got the strongest gravitational

975
00:40:28,940 --> 00:40:26,610
influence but the moon only affects the

976
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:28,950
tide the water over you earth which is

977
00:40:34,220 --> 00:40:30,930
on the surface of the earth the moon

978
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:34,230
probably has an effect on our sweat but

979
00:40:37,340 --> 00:40:35,520
it's so small that you don't notice it

980
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:37,350
after all the tide in the sea varies by

981
00:40:42,020 --> 00:40:40,380
six feet to meters say right and it's a

982
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:42,030
rather large body of water keep it

983
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:44,250
compared to the layer of sweat on your

984
00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:47,520
skin it have an infinite s1 again tiny

985
00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:49,500
effects at all on anything we do

986
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:51,660
anything outside the moon and the Sun

987
00:40:55,610 --> 00:40:53,520
gets smaller and smaller and smaller and

988
00:40:58,430 --> 00:40:55,620
smaller and said and as a billion from

989
00:41:00,110 --> 00:40:58,440
trillions of the power of the moon great

990
00:41:01,700 --> 00:41:00,120
so in effect you're saying that the

991
00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:01,710
planets to simply can't have that

992
00:41:04,850 --> 00:41:03,420
there's only two things sort of either

993
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:04,860
they have a force which sort of gets

994
00:41:09,110 --> 00:41:07,290
less as you go with distance which means

995
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:09,120
that a planet like Pluto have no effect

996
00:41:13,850 --> 00:41:11,930
at all hmm or you have a power that

997
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:13,860
doesn't get less with distance which

998
00:41:17,330 --> 00:41:15,090
means you have to take more count every

999
00:41:19,550 --> 00:41:17,340
star in the universe what you can't do

1000
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:19,560
all right I'm talking with Tim mendham

1001
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:21,510
from the Australian skeptics Association

1002
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:23,850
about astrology well look what you just

1003
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:25,920
said then if an astrology was then to

1004
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:27,810
say to you well what'd she say is true

1005
00:41:31,610 --> 00:41:29,850
but astrology is not based on a

1006
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:31,620
cause-and-effect relationship between

1007
00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:33,210
man and the planets therefore to

1008
00:41:36,990 --> 00:41:34,990
disprove such a cause

1009
00:41:39,859 --> 00:41:37,000
and effect relationship is not to

1010
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:39,869
disprove astrology because in fact

1011
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:41,920
astrology is simply a system of

1012
00:41:46,250 --> 00:41:43,690
symbolism which has been found to

1013
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:46,260
express profound truths about human me

1014
00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:48,430
then you get onto the other areas well

1015
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:50,830
okay if you can take the planets and the

1016
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:53,110
stars out of astrology once you sort of

1017
00:41:57,359 --> 00:41:55,570
wonder why it's called astrology then if

1018
00:41:59,880 --> 00:41:57,369
if it's only a symbolic representation

1019
00:42:01,890 --> 00:41:59,890
then we have to look at how astrologers

1020
00:42:03,090 --> 00:42:01,900
do their task right well we might take a

1021
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:03,100
break right now and then we'll come back

1022
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:04,930
to that part of the argument this is to

1023
00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:08,770
ue news radio 954 to you in Israeli 095

1024
00:42:12,540 --> 00:42:10,600
forwards Julie Brodsky my special guest

1025
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:12,550
this morning is Tim mendham from the

1026
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:14,410
Australian skeptics Association we're

1027
00:42:19,650 --> 00:42:16,570
talking about astrology and essentially

1028
00:42:21,359 --> 00:42:19,660
what can't work now to I've been

1029
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:21,369
interested in astrology for a number of

1030
00:42:26,670 --> 00:42:23,530
years now I don't know either classify

1031
00:42:28,350 --> 00:42:26,680
myself as a true believer may because in

1032
00:42:30,030 --> 00:42:28,360
many ways I do object to it i don't

1033
00:42:32,190 --> 00:42:30,040
really like the idea of classifying

1034
00:42:34,770 --> 00:42:32,200
people according to 12 different signs

1035
00:42:37,230 --> 00:42:34,780
but we're moving to the second half of

1036
00:42:39,060 --> 00:42:37,240
our argument now can astrologers do what

1037
00:42:43,109 --> 00:42:39,070
they say they can do and your answer

1038
00:42:45,150 --> 00:42:43,119
would have to be no well you see this is

1039
00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:45,160
it the straight astrologers say this is

1040
00:42:49,590 --> 00:42:46,990
an exact science which is based on

1041
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:49,600
mathematical calculation so while the

1042
00:42:55,109 --> 00:42:51,490
stuff in newspapers may be a bit general

1043
00:42:56,609 --> 00:42:55,119
a professional astrologer would say a

1044
00:42:59,070 --> 00:42:56,619
horoscope is something very different

1045
00:43:00,750 --> 00:42:59,080
yes that's right they do claim that some

1046
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:00,760
sort of most serious in quotes

1047
00:43:05,790 --> 00:43:03,850
astrologers regard the afternoon paper

1048
00:43:07,530 --> 00:43:05,800
horoscopes as being total rubbish and

1049
00:43:09,599 --> 00:43:07,540
it's just there for fun that's fine if

1050
00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:09,609
it's fun no one's got any objection to

1051
00:43:13,020 --> 00:43:11,260
it at all it's just fun it's a it's on

1052
00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:13,030
the comic page anyway so it's it's

1053
00:43:18,450 --> 00:43:15,400
perfect when they get to say it so

1054
00:43:20,970 --> 00:43:18,460
precise mathematical subject that is

1055
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:20,980
when that can be tested see anything as

1056
00:43:24,210 --> 00:43:22,570
vague as a vague predictions saying that

1057
00:43:25,859 --> 00:43:24,220
you will have a good day you will have a

1058
00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:25,869
bad day you will come into money on

1059
00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:28,540
Thursday or Friday is so vague it's not

1060
00:43:32,849 --> 00:43:30,580
worth worrying about when they say these

1061
00:43:35,010 --> 00:43:32,859
has these planets line up and give you

1062
00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:35,020
this character and because of these

1063
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:37,990
reasons then we can test it and what has

1064
00:43:41,490 --> 00:43:39,730
happened over the last 10 years or so a

1065
00:43:44,180 --> 00:43:41,500
number of people have actually tested

1066
00:43:46,650 --> 00:43:44,190
how well astrologists do at their sure

1067
00:43:49,740 --> 00:43:46,660
there was a very good one done in

1068
00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:49,750
I think California by what immune

1069
00:43:54,090 --> 00:43:51,640
abilities in California at Berkeley yeah

1070
00:43:55,890 --> 00:43:54,100
in which he had some character

1071
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:55,900
assessments done on the Californian

1072
00:43:59,760 --> 00:43:57,730
personality inventory which is regarded

1073
00:44:01,170 --> 00:43:59,770
as a fairly successful character

1074
00:44:04,860 --> 00:44:01,180
assessment it's not an astrological

1075
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,870
assessment it in gave astrologers with

1076
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:06,400
the agreement of the astrological body

1077
00:44:12,810 --> 00:44:08,650
who helped organize his test three of

1078
00:44:14,910 --> 00:44:12,820
these character assessments and one star

1079
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:14,920
chart other person's birds really asked

1080
00:44:19,410 --> 00:44:16,930
the astrologers pick which character

1081
00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:19,420
assessment fits the star chart and so if

1082
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:21,430
a precise science and the astrologers

1083
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:22,750
were predicting are at least fifty

1084
00:44:26,940 --> 00:44:25,330
percent success rate so they did it

1085
00:44:28,350 --> 00:44:26,950
split with a wide number of astrologers

1086
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:28,360
and a wide number of star charts and I

1087
00:44:31,710 --> 00:44:29,920
came back with thirty three percent

1088
00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:31,720
success rate which is exactly what you

1089
00:44:35,550 --> 00:44:34,180
would get from guessing it's absolutely

1090
00:44:37,170 --> 00:44:35,560
no different the astrologers who were

1091
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:37,180
predicting they're going really well and

1092
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:39,040
they were doing really hot stuff and

1093
00:44:42,810 --> 00:44:40,930
they just came back anybody in the

1094
00:44:45,930 --> 00:44:42,820
street can do as well as they could and

1095
00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:45,940
there was actually no exactness in what

1096
00:44:48,180 --> 00:44:47,110
they're doing at all that's just one

1097
00:44:50,220 --> 00:44:48,190
test and they've been many which have

1098
00:44:52,350 --> 00:44:50,230
had the same results well another

1099
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:52,360
argument advanced by astrologers at yes

1100
00:44:55,470 --> 00:44:54,070
okay there's a mathematical side but but

1101
00:44:57,540 --> 00:44:55,480
it takes the test of a really good

1102
00:45:00,330 --> 00:44:57,550
astrology to be able to have some

1103
00:45:02,190 --> 00:45:00,340
feeling for subject well this particular

1104
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:02,200
test was organized by the President and

1105
00:45:05,730 --> 00:45:03,970
vice-president the astrological society

1106
00:45:07,170 --> 00:45:05,740
the people who did the actual test

1107
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:07,180
astrologers were recommended highly

1108
00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:08,770
regarded people they were the top voice

1109
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:10,540
in the field in the US they couldn't do

1110
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:12,160
it of course once the test the results

1111
00:45:15,330 --> 00:45:13,450
came out and they found these problems

1112
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:15,340
has failed all the other astrologers

1113
00:45:18,990 --> 00:45:16,720
said are you tested the wrong ones you

1114
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:19,000
could have texted me yes someone said

1115
00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:20,770
once that arguing with astrologers was

1116
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:23,020
rather like punching a feather pillow to

1117
00:45:27,180 --> 00:45:25,510
go down one in it goes poof the others

1118
00:45:30,570 --> 00:45:27,190
use of an empty one pillow and you one

1119
00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:30,580
pops up somewhere else the other thing

1120
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:33,580
is that of course that an astrologer is

1121
00:45:36,930 --> 00:45:35,050
really reading some of the character a

1122
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:36,940
lot of serious astrologers don't like

1123
00:45:40,410 --> 00:45:38,770
predicting the future they say there's a

1124
00:45:41,730 --> 00:45:40,420
bit bag that they'd like a character

1125
00:45:43,020 --> 00:45:41,740
assessment and that really relies on

1126
00:45:46,710 --> 00:45:43,030
just speaking to someone personally

1127
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:46,720
anyway how effective is it then in terms

1128
00:45:50,850 --> 00:45:49,810
of character assessment poor people

1129
00:45:52,770 --> 00:45:50,860
unless you are speaking to someone

1130
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:52,780
personally sure I'm in sort of thumb you

1131
00:45:55,530 --> 00:45:54,370
can go down and talk to a cab driver you

1132
00:45:57,300 --> 00:45:55,540
can go down and talk to the barman at

1133
00:45:58,890 --> 00:45:57,310
the pub and if you sit there long enough

1134
00:45:59,350 --> 00:45:58,900
and pour out your way to them you'll

1135
00:46:01,330 --> 00:45:59,360
give you

1136
00:46:03,070 --> 00:46:01,340
us and he'll tell you what you like your

1137
00:46:04,990 --> 00:46:03,080
friends will do the same thing so what

1138
00:46:09,190 --> 00:46:05,000
you're saying then is astrology's

1139
00:46:11,740 --> 00:46:09,200
essentially advice wrapped up in a

1140
00:46:13,780 --> 00:46:11,750
colorful package it's what we sort of as

1141
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:13,790
the skeptics so we have no objection for

1142
00:46:16,570 --> 00:46:15,110
people advising people now if

1143
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:16,580
astrologers put up a little sign saying

1144
00:46:19,930 --> 00:46:18,890
we are amateur psychologists I probably

1145
00:46:21,940 --> 00:46:19,940
wouldn't get the same amount of business

1146
00:46:23,830 --> 00:46:21,950
but that's exactly what they are and

1147
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:23,840
it's fine sort of elements of everyone

1148
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:24,770
all your friends are amateur

1149
00:46:29,290 --> 00:46:26,720
psychologists anyone likes to play that

1150
00:46:32,650 --> 00:46:29,300
game but when they wrap it up in those

1151
00:46:34,630 --> 00:46:32,660
other details supposed scientific

1152
00:46:35,890 --> 00:46:34,640
details it just doesn't hold water right

1153
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:35,900
so what you saying then is that

1154
00:46:40,660 --> 00:46:37,850
different planets may represent

1155
00:46:44,740 --> 00:46:40,670
different rates but in other words while

1156
00:46:47,950 --> 00:46:44,750
a stone oh that's what I say it's just

1157
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:47,960
Whittle it down with barb it is its ID

1158
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:49,850
rather different planets represent

1159
00:46:54,340 --> 00:46:52,730
different traits and so while astrology

1160
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:54,350
may not be able to the future it can at

1161
00:46:58,330 --> 00:46:55,810
least give you a fairly thorough

1162
00:47:00,580 --> 00:46:58,340
personality reading not astrology itself

1163
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:00,590
the astrologer if he knows anything

1164
00:47:06,250 --> 00:47:02,690
about people and it is speaking to a

1165
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:06,260
person as we are now face to face he can

1166
00:47:10,690 --> 00:47:08,210
give you as good an assessment of you as

1167
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:10,700
someone over the fence or someone you

1168
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:15,170
just met the astrological the sod chart

1169
00:47:18,910 --> 00:47:17,090
might just be regarded as a tool a

1170
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:18,920
totally useless thing out zone right

1171
00:47:23,050 --> 00:47:20,930
yeah absolutely has no bearing at all on

1172
00:47:24,220 --> 00:47:23,060
the person that they can use that you

1173
00:47:25,420 --> 00:47:24,230
can sort of talk about movies you can

1174
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:25,430
talk about books so you can talk about

1175
00:47:28,870 --> 00:47:27,170
star chip chance and that just get

1176
00:47:31,060 --> 00:47:28,880
people talking do you think that the

1177
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:31,070
reason why it's so complicated has been

1178
00:47:36,340 --> 00:47:34,490
partly to confound the line I don't

1179
00:47:38,140 --> 00:47:36,350
think it Z Labor's consciousness and I

1180
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:38,150
think astrologers really take it very

1181
00:47:42,070 --> 00:47:39,770
seriously and most of them and they do

1182
00:47:44,020 --> 00:47:42,080
regarded as being a science and the way

1183
00:47:45,610 --> 00:47:44,030
they see it the fact that it's not is

1184
00:47:47,710 --> 00:47:45,620
sort of beside the point i think they're

1185
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:47,720
quite genuine most of them yeah might

1186
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:49,010
believe it but they're working on other

1187
00:47:53,950 --> 00:47:51,050
things as well although i didn't so

1188
00:47:57,070 --> 00:47:53,960
maybe what you're saying is that by far

1189
00:48:00,250 --> 00:47:57,080
most predictions made by astrologers of

1190
00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:00,260
the don't do this all that now that went

1191
00:48:05,290 --> 00:48:03,710
until later kind of advice that can be

1192
00:48:07,180 --> 00:48:05,300
tested as good or bad but that can

1193
00:48:08,830 --> 00:48:07,190
always be justified by the astrology

1194
00:48:10,870 --> 00:48:08,840
after its happen absolutely that's what

1195
00:48:12,130 --> 00:48:10,880
normally happens actually that when

1196
00:48:13,090 --> 00:48:12,140
something does happen you'll find an

1197
00:48:15,370 --> 00:48:13,100
astrologer somewhere was

1198
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:15,380
I will I predicted that all right how

1199
00:48:20,770 --> 00:48:19,490
about people's gullibility people it's a

1200
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:20,780
hard thing to bring up because people

1201
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:22,010
don't like being called gullible but

1202
00:48:26,710 --> 00:48:25,010
everybody you mean everybody is gullible

1203
00:48:27,970 --> 00:48:26,720
in some way or another yeah we all know

1204
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:27,980
about used car sales and we all know

1205
00:48:32,710 --> 00:48:29,510
about shonky real estate deal as we all

1206
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:32,720
know about snake oil merchants no one

1207
00:48:36,460 --> 00:48:33,680
likes to believe that they've been

1208
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:36,470
ripped off astrology is particularly

1209
00:48:39,970 --> 00:48:37,910
prone to this because it's such a vague

1210
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:39,980
area you have nice character assessments

1211
00:48:46,390 --> 00:48:42,770
and character assessments are not exact

1212
00:48:49,090 --> 00:48:46,400
things at all most character assessments

1213
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:49,100
given to you by an astrologer so the

1214
00:48:53,650 --> 00:48:51,490
airy fairy sort you know yours you

1215
00:48:55,510 --> 00:48:53,660
sometimes you're introverted sometimes

1216
00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:55,520
you wrecked to averted you feel you're

1217
00:48:59,470 --> 00:48:57,410
not appreciated to work you know you can

1218
00:49:00,760 --> 00:48:59,480
do better but not trying hard enough not

1219
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:00,770
a noisy be putting ready number of

1220
00:49:04,330 --> 00:49:02,930
astrology books mm-hm which ones have

1221
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:04,340
you read just out of interest I read

1222
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:07,330
some by michelle bachman know how is

1223
00:49:12,850 --> 00:49:10,370
claimed to be a major proponent of

1224
00:49:14,380 --> 00:49:12,860
astrology into goodman i have written a

1225
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:14,390
good thing so that's third yes there are

1226
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:16,130
sellers yeah that's right the best

1227
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:17,570
sellers yes they attended work on the

1228
00:49:21,460 --> 00:49:19,370
sun sign which is a fairly sort of

1229
00:49:23,140 --> 00:49:21,470
simple basic without going into grade

1230
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:23,150
t's house and she talks about various

1231
00:49:26,620 --> 00:49:24,650
combinations in the love sign book who

1232
00:49:29,020 --> 00:49:26,630
you'd be best off matched with here and

1233
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:29,030
it's a fairly complicated book i had

1234
00:49:32,350 --> 00:49:30,530
read it when it's a complicated she has

1235
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:32,360
a nice easy colloquial style of writing

1236
00:49:38,590 --> 00:49:37,310
but as far as what there's a very icy we

1237
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:38,600
get into terminology astrological

1238
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:40,310
technology we go to get ourselves sort

1239
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:42,890
of very clear i mean i'd like to but

1240
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:45,170
obviously not everyone understands that

1241
00:49:49,410 --> 00:49:46,370
and i'm not sure there's really that

1242
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:49,420
much to understand anyway in a sense I'm

1243
00:49:54,010 --> 00:49:52,130
by the way speaking of team ended from

1244
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:54,020
the straining skeptics Association but

1245
00:49:59,590 --> 00:49:56,450
look in any discussion of astrology

1246
00:50:04,500 --> 00:49:59,600
right the question we had to keep coming

1247
00:50:11,350 --> 00:50:08,340
effectiveness right of astrological

1248
00:50:15,370 --> 00:50:11,360
right I'll give you an addictions if I

1249
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:15,380
may I can michelle bachman who was a

1250
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:17,540
french researcher it was been constantly

1251
00:50:21,550 --> 00:50:19,250
quoted by astrologers as supporting

1252
00:50:23,170 --> 00:50:21,560
astrology apparently very few

1253
00:50:24,250 --> 00:50:23,180
astrologers had read his books because

1254
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:24,260
he doesn't he

1255
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,930
so he's French is French and he calls

1256
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:28,640
himself a student of the new astrology

1257
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:30,110
is that much he is the fellow report of

1258
00:50:33,940 --> 00:50:32,570
the Mars influence they're saying

1259
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:33,950
certain people with certain plants in

1260
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:36,890
certain houses have a certain profession

1261
00:50:42,220 --> 00:50:38,090
but that's it that's as far as he goes

1262
00:50:45,250 --> 00:50:42,230
and that's a bit questionable anyway but

1263
00:50:46,750 --> 00:50:45,260
he did an experiment and it was that he

1264
00:50:49,690 --> 00:50:46,760
put an ad in the paper and french paper

1265
00:50:51,820 --> 00:50:49,700
free horoscopes free star chart which is

1266
00:50:53,950 --> 00:50:51,830
unusual in astrological circles you know

1267
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:53,960
we have to pay for it anything from two

1268
00:50:58,210 --> 00:50:55,520
dollars to two thousand dollars

1269
00:50:59,380 --> 00:50:58,220
depending on who you seeing right free

1270
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,390
one as long as you answer a

1271
00:51:04,540 --> 00:51:01,520
questionnaire think a lot of responses I

1272
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:04,550
would say for free and he said I can

1273
00:51:08,590 --> 00:51:05,690
answer the question there I want you to

1274
00:51:10,150 --> 00:51:08,600
give me people of answers 1 how accurate

1275
00:51:12,610 --> 00:51:10,160
is my character assessment of you and

1276
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:12,620
how accurate do your friends think my

1277
00:51:16,900 --> 00:51:14,930
character says no I avoid the self

1278
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:16,910
delusion thinking yes who know you

1279
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:19,010
better right so senator about a hundred

1280
00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:20,450
and fifty people responded to the

1281
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:22,640
questionnaire ninety percent of them

1282
00:51:26,710 --> 00:51:25,040
said I believe that your cage assessment

1283
00:51:29,620 --> 00:51:26,720
of me is spot-on ninety-five percent

1284
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,630
said us perfect and in that are the what

1285
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:31,040
are the friends think and the friends

1286
00:51:34,930 --> 00:51:32,510
the answer was ninety percent thought

1287
00:51:36,790 --> 00:51:34,940
it's very very good spot on it n

1288
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:36,800
revealed that he sent everybody exactly

1289
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:39,770
the same character assessment really and

1290
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:41,090
he had actually bay state that was a

1291
00:51:44,620 --> 00:51:42,650
real cater assessment based on a real

1292
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:44,630
star chart based on a man who had killed

1293
00:51:49,540 --> 00:51:47,450
several dozen people and then dissolved

1294
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:49,550
their bodies in a line it was a mass

1295
00:51:53,410 --> 00:51:51,710
murderer famous French Matthew yeah they

1296
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:53,420
wouldn't have picked that up no that's

1297
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:55,010
what often happens if you so everyone

1298
00:51:58,450 --> 00:51:56,570
knows what York a turistic supposed to

1299
00:52:02,170 --> 00:51:58,460
be for your sign whether you be Leo

1300
00:52:04,750 --> 00:52:02,180
Taurus Virgo or whatever try getting

1301
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:04,760
another one for a query Azure Pisces or

1302
00:52:07,990 --> 00:52:06,650
some other star sign and reading that

1303
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:08,000
and honestly see if that applies to you

1304
00:52:12,250 --> 00:52:09,890
as well yeah so in other words it

1305
00:52:14,260 --> 00:52:12,260
wouldn't hurt once in a while to read it

1306
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:14,270
up and then get someone else to read

1307
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:15,890
over and see if they can I've done buddy

1308
00:52:20,140 --> 00:52:17,920
where a friend of mine has been given a

1309
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:20,150
personality assessment by and noted

1310
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:22,730
Australian astrologer and I've taken his

1311
00:52:26,290 --> 00:52:25,250
name off it and put my name on past the

1312
00:52:29,050 --> 00:52:26,300
people and say what do you think of this

1313
00:52:30,700 --> 00:52:29,060
I said god it's pretty places for you

1314
00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:30,710
that's not me at all is I'm totally

1315
00:52:34,290 --> 00:52:32,110
differently

1316
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:34,300
and the other thing is you can do is

1317
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:35,710
sort of someone asked you what your star

1318
00:52:41,250 --> 00:52:37,990
son is tell them something else and I'll

1319
00:52:45,150 --> 00:52:41,260
say I knew it all along try it it's fun

1320
00:52:49,650 --> 00:52:45,160
actually so in essence then do you feel

1321
00:52:52,980 --> 00:52:49,660
that astrology is basically an outmoded

1322
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:52,990
system based on what the Greeks and the

1323
00:52:56,820 --> 00:52:55,570
early Babylonians used to do in order to

1324
00:52:58,770 --> 00:52:56,830
rationalize the universe that they

1325
00:53:01,020 --> 00:52:58,780
couldn't explain I could not put a bit

1326
00:53:02,850 --> 00:53:01,030
on myself what that's exactly it that's

1327
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:02,860
right right it's only thing else you

1328
00:53:06,060 --> 00:53:04,570
want to say about it just that there

1329
00:53:07,860 --> 00:53:06,070
have been many sort of tests on base for

1330
00:53:09,540 --> 00:53:07,870
you astrologers do test themselves of

1331
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:09,550
their own and if a days someone comes

1332
00:53:12,540 --> 00:53:10,720
back to them and said you were correct

1333
00:53:14,190 --> 00:53:12,550
that's me and they said well that proves

1334
00:53:15,810 --> 00:53:14,200
it well it doesn't prove but you have to

1335
00:53:17,850 --> 00:53:15,820
go further than that and a test that

1336
00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:17,860
have been done seriously wit astrologers

1337
00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:19,630
have proved that it doesn't work have

1338
00:53:24,810 --> 00:53:22,990
you done anything recently oh he's

1339
00:53:26,460 --> 00:53:24,820
chatting skeptics extra not misspell

1340
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:26,470
although they have a long article would

1341
00:53:32,730 --> 00:53:29,680
spin a major survey of astrology done by

1342
00:53:34,650 --> 00:53:32,740
an Australian which researched astrology

1343
00:53:37,020 --> 00:53:34,660
for last 20 years and is noted in

1344
00:53:39,090 --> 00:53:37,030
astrological service circles as being

1345
00:53:42,750 --> 00:53:39,100
very well informed and he came out with

1346
00:53:44,460 --> 00:53:42,760
the ideas spunk oh I didn't amend them

1347
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:44,470
from the Australian skeptics Association

1348
00:53:47,370 --> 00:53:45,730
thank you very much for coming in thank

1349
00:53:56,779 --> 00:53:47,380
you doing to tell you we will take a

1350
00:54:02,400 --> 00:53:59,730
hi this is brian dunning from sceptile

1351
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com the best way to share the benefits

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of critical thinking and science with

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someone who doesn't listen to podcasts

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is to give them a book I invite you to

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1360
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1361
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and challenge your friends pirates

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pyramids and papyrus by Brian Dunning

1363
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with a foreword by Richard Saunders of

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the Australian skeptics it's available

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now from major online booksellers as a

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paperback and as an e-book or get a

1367
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personalized copy from sceptile com I'm

1368
00:54:59,400 --> 00:54:57,700
Brian Dunning from sceptile com I like

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00:55:02,279 --> 00:54:59,410
rexburg like make its main out here how

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00:55:04,410 --> 00:55:02,289
are you thanks right now look hello is

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00:55:06,750 --> 00:55:04,420
your computer working properly Greg yes

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it is thanks now you called me and

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contacted me because there's a bit of a

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scam that's going around now that I'm

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sure our listeners would like to hear

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about and also you're uniquely

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positioned to know exactly what's going

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on tell us sir what you do is a living

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00:55:20,970 --> 00:55:18,789
in how you got involved in this

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particular scam or not or you may busted

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it man I haven't busted it it's out

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there and it's a lot of people are

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getting affected by well what's going on

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and will tell us what happen with you

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well I've got about 30 clients had phone

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calls from people from the subcontinent

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pretending to be computer repairs and

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you work in the ID areas or the news

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you're that's right year so I then it

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looks from people after the event thing

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I took this phone call from this person

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and now worried that my computer's dirty

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and I've had one client least six

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hundred dollars another client two

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hundred dollars editor credit card

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another client attempted to take twelve

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thousand dollars out of the bank account

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now tell us exactly how this scam works

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and how these people expose themselves

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losing money well what happens is the

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kind of people that don't know too much

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about computers and say oh we're from

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such and such a company and your

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computer has been reported to have a

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problem and unless you fix this then

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you're continuing to have problems and

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we can help you fix it and then they'll

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get the person to go through some

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settings in the computer and show them

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all the problems that are in the

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computer and then they'll access their

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computer remotely and well we're not

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sure what happens with that but

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sometimes there may be putting things

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into the computer and sometimes they're

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taking information out of the computer

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without the purse so these are mainly

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Windows computers is there any

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particular version of windows they're

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targeting know they're getting everybody

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and tell me do you think they're getting

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into their bank account details and

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that's how they're getting it well it's

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certainly that indication in certainly

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one case because two weeks after they

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accessed the computer they attempted to

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take as I said twelve thousand dollars

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out of someone's bank account and you've

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gone into a few of these computers are

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they Trojans are they key copy is what

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are they sending off there they're all

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kinds of things more importantly though

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that you know you can't keep your

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computer room in a state of not knowing

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whether it's clean and not so you've got

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to run software through the computer and

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make sure that there's still nothing

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think that there's still no possibility

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someone accessing it remotely so if

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someone has had this happen to them I

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guess it's a clean install that's going

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to be done well that's the risk you take

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if you don't you know can't be confident

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you've got a totally clean you might

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need to do a wreck ring full of windows

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right and if someone was doing backups

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on their computer I imagine that they

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could end up backing up the crappy stuff

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as well that's right yeah so it's very

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be sure the computers clean after

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they've accessed it so what I'm really

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trying to pass on the people is if you

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00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:54,740
receive this call hang up on them don't

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do what they tell you to do don't let

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them access your computer and if you

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have someone that does regard to your

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computer contact that person and you

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know deal with the Indian Scalia to do

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now iram and now you actually got their

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number and you rang these people that

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were ringing people and doing this how

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far did you get with them a new ring men

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oh I spoke to the front desk and claimed

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to be a company in

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Sydney and I asked him where were they

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in Sydney and he then picked a very

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offended saying or why do you want to

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know who are you so that's as far as I

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got the front desk we have had a few

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people here that work here as well that

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have said that they've also had calls

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from them I guess the best thing is to

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hang up on them but is there a fun way

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you could play with their brain before

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you hang up well I've heard of people

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using a whistle and blowing a whistle um

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I got the phone call about two weeks ago

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and I played along for a while just to

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see where they take me in wasted 20

1480
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minutes of his time I thought that was

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worth doing yeah so basically they're

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looking for money thereafter youdo

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that's right and a lot of people are

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getting sucked in by them or scared by

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them worried about what's happened to

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their computer and everyone's getting

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very upset and all that's got to happen

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is they've got to know a little bit more

1489
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about computers that you do and you'll

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follow them along and believe that

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they're they're really there to help you

1492
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that's not the case and basically we're

1493
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telling people that strangers just don't

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ring you up and tell you your computer's

1495
00:59:18,490 --> 00:59:16,370
have problems that never happens that's

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exactly right anybody that cold calls

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you that you don't know that phones you

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00:59:22,930 --> 00:59:21,770
up and says there's something on with

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00:59:25,210 --> 00:59:22,940
the computer you don't want to know

1500
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:25,220
about them hang up on them and how do

1501
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:26,810
you know when if you want someone to

1502
00:59:29,650 --> 00:59:28,160
work on your computer is a reputable

1503
00:59:31,570 --> 00:59:29,660
person I mean how do you know that

1504
00:59:33,250 --> 00:59:31,580
someone's on the level that's the

1505
00:59:35,170 --> 00:59:33,260
problem there are people out there that

1506
00:59:38,260 --> 00:59:35,180
don't know too much but still selling

1507
00:59:39,730 --> 00:59:38,270
their services best way to get a person

1508
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:39,740
is word of mouth from a friend that used

1509
00:59:43,630 --> 00:59:41,570
someone it sounds good enough to me look

1510
00:59:44,770 --> 00:59:43,640
thanks you call Greg and if you do get

1511
00:59:46,180 --> 00:59:44,780
to talk to the guys again maybe you

1512
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:46,190
should ring them and tell them there's

1513
00:59:58,030 --> 00:59:48,410
something wrong with their computer what

1514
01:00:00,160 --> 00:59:58,040
a good idea thank you for calling

1515
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:00,170
customer care for individuals oh man

1516
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:02,330
health care oh yes look a friend of mine

1517
01:00:05,980 --> 01:00:04,370
just said that he had some trouble with

1518
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:05,990
his computer and I'm very concerned that

1519
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:07,010
I might have some trouble with my

1520
01:00:12,190 --> 01:00:09,530
computer to and and you guys do that

1521
01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:12,200
sort of thing too you know so this is

1522
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:14,570
the customer care department the

1523
01:00:19,210 --> 01:00:16,490
customers who have signed us with our

1524
01:00:22,780 --> 01:00:19,220
company they are only provided with this

1525
01:00:25,450 --> 01:00:22,790
number okay so you can't help me really

1526
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:25,460
problem my computer I'm sorry so it's

1527
01:00:29,980 --> 01:00:27,530
basically it's not a sales department

1528
01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:29,990
okay and where you based you you in

1529
01:00:33,609 --> 01:00:31,369
Melbourne or Sydney

1530
01:00:36,059 --> 01:00:33,619
we are based in Sydney oh okay we're

1531
01:00:38,499 --> 01:00:36,069
about you in North Sydney people or I

1532
01:00:39,999 --> 01:00:38,509
think apart we're about to your based

1533
01:00:42,460 --> 01:00:40,009
are you in North Sydney we're all other

1534
01:00:45,819 --> 01:00:42,470
guys are are you over you know 50 pop a

1535
01:00:47,470 --> 01:00:45,829
way better shipley park chifley park

1536
01:00:48,999 --> 01:00:47,480
okay well thank you very much so by

1537
01:01:13,210 --> 01:00:49,009
having a computer problem you can't help

1538
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:15,890
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1539
01:01:22,070 --> 01:01:19,010
on a big thank you to me nerd for his

1540
01:01:24,170 --> 01:01:22,080
contribution this week and to a thang

1541
01:01:27,980 --> 01:01:24,180
Maynard you can visit his website

1542
01:01:31,730 --> 01:01:27,990
Maynard com got a huge check out his

1543
01:01:34,010 --> 01:01:31,740
videos his podcast that would be the

1544
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:34,020
thing to do thank you may not two thumbs

1545
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:36,450
up and just a reminder that if you

1546
01:01:42,350 --> 01:01:39,510
haven't booked your ticket for the

1547
01:01:46,730 --> 01:01:42,360
amazing meeting tam 9 in las vegas

1548
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,740
coming up in mid-july bout time you are

1549
01:01:52,850 --> 01:01:48,240
worked your fingers to the keyboard

1550
01:01:57,490 --> 01:01:52,860
typed in ww Randy org and make sure you

1551
01:01:59,990 --> 01:01:57,500
secure your ticket I shall see you there

1552
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:00,000
but for now this is Richard Saunders

1553
01:02:11,150 --> 01:02:07,770
signing off from Sydney Australia you've

1554
01:02:15,740 --> 01:02:11,160
been listening to the skeptic zone visit

1555
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:15,750
our website at www skeptics on TV for